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The Debate! Part 2(b)

The Debate! Part 2(b)

Yesterday, we brought you Michael`s response to Simon`s answers. Today, Simon, a Pro-Protest, Anti-Kean man takes on Michael`s initial set of answers.

Just like yesterday

Italics = The initial question

Bold= Michael`s initial answer

Plain= Simon`s counter argument!

Discuss your opinion on the protests. Are they effective and how do they portray the supporters, the players/coach and the club.

We went into the first protest, nonsensically before, a home game against a struggling Arsenal team. Protesting before a match, is telling your opponents that you expect to lose. It tells the players you have no faith in their abilities, and tells the wider football world that the fans don`t know what they are talking about, when, as did happen, the team wins'.

I would argue that instead of having a negative impact on the playing staff it has had a positive effect and has resulted in a number of improved performances. The players do seem to be fighting for Steve Kean and I think this has been a real catalyst for our improvement in recent games. You might ask well - what's the problem then? Well the problem is two-fold really: 1. It shouldn't have took a protest for the players to pull their finger out. 2. The problem is still the tactics or rather the lack of! It's alright the players working their arses off if Kean's delusional tactics mean that we concede goals galore! For example: Playing Givet at left back with Hoilett LW or playing Salgado at right back with Hoilett at RW. This leaves two players with zero pace extremely exposed when as seems to be the norm - other managers put their fastest players up against them and often double up!

'Look at it from a different angle; we`ve played 11 games, with 4 positive results i.e. points collecting'

Please don't start to use Steve Kean's language - positive, positive and ... what was that - positive? Next you will be spouting that we are closer to a clean sheet - 64 minutes against City and 89 against Newcastle [Cup].... In these games we conceded 6 goals [in normal time]. Lets look at it from a different angle - 32 games, 6 wins, 10 draws. By anyone's maths - that is relegation form!

"Of those three teams, 2 outspent us in the transfer market, one of which was a complete new team'

In point two of your argument below you talk about how long it takes a team to change ethos, tow the line, hire and fire etc etc. QPR did that more recently than us so with us being further down the line with changing the ethos and new players etc surely we should be able to beat them?! Especially when they have Heidar Helguson playing for them!

...against a side that had made their key summer purchases early on. BUT no-one mentions that in the protests. If they complained that our signings weren`t made early enough, I`d agree, but they don`t, they continue with the guttural and infantile Kean Out, that most imaginative of catchphrases.'

That is long gone and part of a larger reason. I note your are on twitter and surely you must have seen these complaints going on all of the time during the window? Also - a key point which you can draw from this - Steve Kean told us around about June if memory serves that we were looking to do business early. When did we make most of our signings?You know the answer. You can say that we didn't want to be held to ransom etc but you have no proof of that - ie. no signings were close that collapsed. I feel it is more likely that Kean was dithering in the market with no idea of who to buy or where to start [especially with his pal Jerome in his ear all the time]. As a final note - what would you prefer the catchphrase to be? 'Oh please dear Venkys can you remove Steven Kean from his position as he is not good enough at his job' - Doesn't carry quite the same ring. As for juvenile - see Steve Kean's comments as regards 'a couple of hundred fans' and Paul Hunt's stunt to drown out the protests after City!

'why would the Board listen to a section of the fans when leading industry experts, are saying that the protests are wrong.'

Simple - some of the protestors have been season ticket holders for well over 20 years without a single protest. We have watched teams like Don McKay's rubbish, Paul Ince's, Ray Harford's and not one single protest, We have even watched as Sam took away our love of playing teams at football to having to sit through hoofball! That's why they should listen. As 'Arry headed off back down South do you really think he gave two hoots about what happens to Kean or Blackburn? I think not!

'the 'Plane Protest'

I think you will find that the reason we resorted to the plane was the fact that the club reneged on an agreement to allow a pre-match protest. This was apparently as they were worried how the pro-kean camp would react. To date you are only the second pro-Kean person I have come across. That aside, I don't feel it affected the players on the pitch. We didn't concede until the second half and still had chances to equalise then. The whole game went flat and I think it's easy to blame the plane. If the players had time to notice the plane then I cannot say much for their concentration when there are superstars on the pitch in front of them looking for goals! If it had affected them then Chelsea would have scored!

'and I would now support the club in banning them from the ground.'

When we have racists and thugs in the ground [Pro-Kean I might add] why on earth would some little banners lead you to say this?! In reality - all Anti-Kean protestors fully got behind THE TEAM for the Chelski game and have done at every other so quite frankly, I find it astounding that you want them banned. This is an atrocious comment and something that will annoy those fans that just sit back in apathy.

"As a Rovers fan living in Birmingham, I hear plenty of opinions on Rovers. The most common one I`m getting is the team are playing well, so why are YOU protesting? After I tell the Liverpool, Villa, Man Utd, Baggies, Wolves, Stoke, Arsenal and Chelsea fans that actually I don`t support the protest, and that I think the club are doing ok AND that I have faith that results will improve, the most common response is, 'good cuz for a minute I thought you`d gone crackers.`

Once again - their assessments are based on what? MOTD? So in other words - they are regurgitating Shearer's comments [he doesn't even watch the full game before you start!]. As an aside - do you get to the games or are you basing your assessments on the LET and MOTD?! #justaskin

'To summarize, the clubs reputation is being tarnished, but not by the employee`s of BRFC, but rather the fans, and even then it`s a section of the fans'

Totally disagree. We are fighting for what we believe in. Venkys are praising our 'Brilliant Manager' and discussing an improved deal with him. This is all on the back of... what exactly? Some of the worst results the EPL has ever seen. This utter dross only serves to make us look even more of a chicken stock.... oops sorry I meant laughing stock!

Discuss your opinion on Steve Kean. How is he faring, is he the man for the job

In the twelve months he has been in charge, he has had three months to recruit, taking into account player holidays, and largely for the first six months of his reign was stuck with the defense-minded players he had because funds had not fully been released to him, to bring those players in. He managed though to bring in Ruben Rochina and Mauro Formica, arguably two of our best players so far this season. He managed to keep us in the Premiership despite these hindrances. Various fake sources appeared at this stage, none less than roversinsider on twitter, spreading rumour and lies in general, feeding the misery of fans who were anxious for the club to sign anyone. Questions were raised about key members of the board stepping down and would these signings be made if we`d still had John Williams. The answer of course is no, the club refused to be held to ransom by other teams and rightly so. Kean missed out on a number of targets this way, and before we knew it the season had started with no key new signings. We were, just, beaten by Wolves, who with new CB Roger Johnson looked a lot better than the three goals they shipped against us on the last day of last season. We went to Aston Villa and we played the worst I`ve seen a Rovers team play in twenty years, and then an unlucky performance against Everton, where we missed two penalties

I have absolutely no arguments with what you have said in here except that they are all EXCUSES! ' He was a coach and asked to step up as manager' He had defensive minded players until he bought [Was Hoilett not there and did Kalinic not get two goals for him v WBA before he was bombed? Instead he persisted with Donkey Roberts] He bought late in the window - YAWN YAWN YAWN!

Venkys said 'Judge us after 12 months' - nearly there! Kean said at the end of the window - Judge me now. Are you asking us to wait AGAIN before we judge him? When would you like us to judge him? When we are in the Championship?

'Vuckevic, Petrovic, Ribeiro, they are all proving they have a part to play for the team and the squad'

Have you been watching the games? Vukcevic has hardly played but getting there. Petrovic has looked clumsy and poor. Ribeiro hasn't even played [even in the absence of Salgado]!

'Sir Alex Ferguson is the most successful manager Man Utd have ever had, but he was once 45 minutes away from being sacked, he won the FA Cup in that 45 mins and now every English club is compared to the dynasty he started.

They are only compared to that dynasty when people are looking for a reason to give a manager time. Steve Kean does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as him, especially when he is suggesting he spiked his drink under oath!

Discuss your opinion on our owners, Venkys

'The other board members brought in a succession of managers who could not reignite the glory days of the club, until eventually the resentful children found another family from a far off land to buy the club off them'

Did we not win a cup under Souness and play in Europe regularly with Souness and Hughes? I would take either of those over him any day! Depends what you define as glory days. For us - that is playing in Europe and having a good cup run with any owners [unless we get citeh money!]

'But the supporters of the football club resented the family because they wanted to run the football club like a business'

When has any of our fans resented Venkys for running the club like a business? We resent them for not listening to our concerns re Kean. We are happy with the money they have put in and hope to see more???

'So the supporters, who wanted the family to bankrupt themselves in funding their every whim, became ungrateful for the gifts bestowed upon them'

Not true as above! Also - Steve Kean is NOT a gift [unless it was supplied by Burnley]

'Even though the family had gone about establishing the club as a global brand'

Not true - they are trying to establish Venkys as a global brand and trying to establish the club as an Indian brand.

'But the fans were still ungrateful and turned to protesting about the way the football club was run and demanding things they had no right to'

So we have no right to suggest they should engage with us more and tell us what is going on?! I am sure John Williams would still disagree - even now [Still bugs that we lost the best Chairman in the league because of them!]

'They do not want the club to be held to ransom for players, they accept that every player has their price, and ultimately if a player wants to leave then their staying could damage the club further.

And.... you know this how? Who have we tried to sign and then backed off because of price? They tried everything to keep Jones but couldn't because of a clause. They have kept Samba against his will and proactively ruined any chance we had of keeping Hoilett

If you could post one message to all Rovers supporters, what would it be!

Keep The Faith, I`d play the bloody Bon Jovi song if I thought it would make a difference.

Funnily enough, I mistook this for one of Steve Kean's team talks for a minute! Had West Ham not took this stance last season then there is a good chance they would have still been in the EPL. Ironic that they chose our former manager when we may pass them on our way down!

The song that springs to mind for me when I read your comments is Paul Johnson - Down, Down Down Down D-Down!

Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

Date:Wednesday November 23 2011
Time: 11:24PM


Simon and Michael have both provided us with some extravegent points of discussion, both having completely different and opposing views! great stuff
24/11/2011 00:12:00
Never read so much verbal diarrhea in all my life, Michael you must be from another planet, and are part of what is all wrong at rovers. Stick to Birmingham, have you actually been to a game this season. Typical keyboard warrior who have jumped out the woodwork. Leave the supporting of rovers to real men, who really care, instead of feeding us ur tripe each week. You might not care about the club, but thankfully enough real supporters do, including non-protestors. Great effort of putting your points across Simon, you live and breathe it each week with the rest of us
24/11/2011 01:24:00
Starting to think this is a Dingle vs a Rovers fan. How can a 'fan' be so blind to what is happening to our club? I may not always agree with everything the protestors come out with but I can certainly use what information there is banding about to form the obvious conclusion that was have taken so many backward steps under the new regime. This is the regime that was supposed to push us to the next step, not drag us down into successive relegation scraps, the first from a VERY comfortable position.
24/11/2011 08:37:00
that we have taken*
24/11/2011 08:40:00
Great back and forth debate even if I don't agree with one side! Sasman - thank you for putting the time and the considerable effort in to put this together and thanks to Michael and Simon for this as well :)
Mikey Delap
24/11/2011 09:22:00
This guy is hilarious!! Iv made my point previously about certain aspects of the protests/protesters but I still maintain that Venkies and Kean are no good for us and I would replace both in a heart beat!! This guy really DOES NOT have a bloody clue what he is talking about! He lives in furry fluffy land with rose tinted glasses and watches MOTD, not even venturing to the extended highlights on sky!! One opinion that I have formed however is that it isn't KEAN who is our principle problem, it's Venkies...would you really choose the village idiot to run your business?? And if you did would it really be the village idiots fault if he was a failure?? In fairness we have deserved at least 7pts more which would mean that he had 35pts from 33 games so he's not a million miles away! Contrary to some opinion we were crap under sam n punching well above our weight with a team destined for relegation at some point and no cash to improve even with large sales...we play better football now but it's simple really, until venkies either, leave or do a full 180 on how they run things, including taking the village idiot with them then we will fail!! 100% Rover 0% venkies/kean
24/11/2011 09:23:00
Glen, Mani & Fran - you may not agree with the post above, but I don't see any need for the remarks you are making. I may not agree with everything that both posters have written, but I understand that people hold different views to myself. We are all fans of the club and want the best for it - your comment about leaving the support of Rovers to 'real men' is just plain rude!
24/11/2011 12:48:00
I understand people hold different views but I have no idea how he could possibly come to his. I would retract any dingle comments if he could apply rationale to his reasoning. I don't see it. I only see someone who refuses to believe what is being pointed out. Like I also said I don't with everything the protestors do but it has been a first for me to meet a fan so willing to disconnect himself from some of the most obvious factors that are turning our beloved club into a laughing stock up and down the country. Every time I mention Blackburn to a friend where I live they ask me why Kean is still in charge and ask me how the same (if not better) squad can get so bad in such a short period of time. It's all there to see. Also I don't see what's so out of order about my post in the first place. We are all passionate about this club and I havn;t posted on here a lot lately because I'm in total despair about the state of our club. Ok maybe I over reacted by questioning his status as a fan and I retract that but this got me pretty angry and I've let out some frustration on this article but I will still stand by the fact I literally have no clue how someone could come up with this set of views.
24/11/2011 20:06:00
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